[Transcript of my chat with Rupesh on Chi and Prana]
Rupesh: anyways , i was going to write to an email about some new discovries about chi or qi I started to stuy
Guru: Great!!
Rupesh: i was wondering how it was different from prana in pranayama in our yoga
transformed into chi/ki/qi in oriental martial arts
Guru: It's the same AFAIK.
Rupesh: I have bought some books about qi gong and start reading about it and practice some the techniques to feel it
AFAIK?
Guru: As Far As I Know.
Try to get this book "The Science of Breath" by Shri Rama. Himalayan Institute Press.
An excellent book as it explains the scientific basis for many of the concepts in pranayama.
Not very common in yoga books.
Rupesh: cool, i will look for that, but i did notice that prana transformed its name in martial arts but also the purpose
like in tai chi , i have there 4 different styles
2 are for healing and 2 are used for martial arts to defend themselves
Rupesh: oh, k , well i was trying to find the transformation between the prana in yoga and using chi in martial arts
Guru: How are the healing chi different from the defence chi?
Rupesh: and I was planning to practice chi breathing first
and incorporate that into my forms in TKD
Guru: Do they teach you that in the class?
Rupesh: so far I have found that the healing and martial chi are one and the same but chi in general has lot to do with your imagination ,
especially during the practice of making your chi strong , you imagine ,
Guru: We'd brought a book on Chi Gong and Sex :D
Rupesh: like you are as strong as be able to lift the earth or as tall as the skies or as delicate to float on the water
no kidding , that would be a side effect of chi of course
Guru: Tantra related Chi practises...
But the things you said are similar.... imagination....
Essentially Kundalini is raised during these practises....
Rupesh: well, they do not teach much about chi at my school , unfortunately , may be in the upper belt levels
Guru: Ok.
Kundalini is the lowest chakra and related to sex.
Rupesh: I suppose , but I am sure I will find the Answer
Guru: The person who started teaching Yoga at Shao-lin would also have taught the Tantra practises to his disciples...
Rupesh: where and when and how yoga and martial arts understand the concept and use it
Guru: That's how Chinese kung-fu got hold of all the Chi meditations...
I think his name was Da-Mo in chinese and dharma something in India....
Rupesh: that makes sense, it does look like the concepts passed on from yoga to martial arts than the other way
Guru: Yep.
The chinese picked up a LOT of stuff from India...
They named it differently in their own fashion later....
Rupesh: I have read some where about bodhi dharma , one of the budhist monks taking from india to china or shaolin
Guru: Get the book I told you about.... it'll make a lot of things clear.
Most yoga books try to hide the Real meaning behind the bandhas and kriyas....
Rupesh: but i believe chinese did enhance it and practice and made the concepts stronger
Guru: They all give the warning that doing these practises incorrectly can lead to physical and mental damage....
Usually saying something like "The forces unleashed by these practises may be beyond the capacity of the unguided student to control...."
Rupesh: a stong pill with a warning
but without practicing how would any reach to that point
Guru: That's what I also feel...
and if you think about it a bit....
who taught the first guy to discover this stuff....
he would have learnt this on his own...
Rupesh: comparitvely , wonder why oriental people are known to hte world more active in there daily life than indians
every time we see on tv , oriental guys are practicing tai chi every where , even in the busy cities like hong kong or singapore or bijieng
Guru: It's the weather I tell you....
They've got cold weather....
Helps you do Tai Chi....
Even our own yogis went to Himalayas to do tapasya...
Just kidding...
:D
Rupesh: anyways , like someone said "practice is the mother of all the skills" we have lot say , that is indians aobut our culture and wealth but no practice
Guru: I think that Pranayama is also done by equal no. of people....
The only thing is the chinese arts are suited to practise by people not interested in mind control....
The benefits are also more tangible.... than in pranayama...
Most people think OH!! I just sit in a corner and breathe....
Rupesh: i guess, but yoga is very popular here, probably a yoga master can get laid more than geek
Guru: the first thing you think of in Tai-Chi is the slow motion hand waving... as if the person is inside the sea waves...
:D
Good place to practise Tantra chi huh?!! ;-D
Rupesh: goof
anyways , its just pity sometimes to hear people talk about yoga and see through them that have no concept what so ever
they wouldnt even understand what name of the posture means
Guru: Yoga guys are very round-about when talking of the concept.... don't give it to you direct....
I think an american yoga expert would be much more direct and to the point.
Rupesh: but we do have people out here who go all the way to china or some orient country and learn martial arts out there and teach it here
who really study it
which i think is pretty cool,
Guru: Yes. They're more action-oriented....
Both the Europeans and the chinese/Japanese....
more yang.
Seems like we're more Yin in that sense.
Rupesh: but i was reading about the food types which fall under yin and yang
all the indian food looked like yang
Guru: Chi Gong/Pranayama allow in many stages to control different aspects of our body and mind....
Rupesh: which I thought was interesting
Guru: Uh,huh....
Rupesh: what>
Guru: According to acupressure 5 tastes are sour, hot, sweet, salt, bitter
They in turn are related to the 5 energies Wind, Heat, Humidity, Dryness, Cold
in turn related to Intelligence/Anger, Laughter/Passion, Greed/Calculation, Sadness/Discipline, Fear/Wisdom
The first 2 energies are Yang energies....
Last 2 energies are Yin energies and the middle one is more balanced...
Sent at 8:07 PM on Friday
Rupesh: ok
Guru: So the Yang foods would be sour, hot.
Yin foods would be salty, bitter.
Rupesh: but what about the food, all the spices we are yang food rather than fruits and veggies which are yin
Guru: With Sweet foods being humidity ie balanced...
Rupesh: so how would indian people form balance other than eating yogurt at the end of the meal
Guru: It's not that straight forward.
we eat curd which is sweet or sour....
Exactly!!
The reason is Spicy food lasts long in our hot conditions....
Rupesh: and oriental people on the other hand do eat lot of sea food which is yin but add spices as yang
Guru: if you don't have a fridge then this type of food lasts long...
example is pickle....
Spicy and salty....
lasts verrrrry long...
Our food is not that salty as its impossible to have that high salt in normal food...
If you look at the "tadka" put into daal it has mixture of all the tastes.... including bitter(methi seeds, mustard seeds etc)...
This has its origin in Ayurveda which prescribes Kheer as the best food for yogis...
Light and easily digestible...
Ok maan!! It was nice talking to you... but gotta leave for home now...
I'll include this chat in my next blog posting!!! :D
Rupesh: ok, drive carefully, will yap some other time
Guru: Bye
........
Quite a few months NO actually a year passed before we had our next conversation :
bhallu, dipti and myself had attended a 'shibir'/workshop on Suryanamaskar, Pranayam and Meditation conducted by our communities Swamiji.....
Everyday for the last 1-2 months we used to practise that in the mornings....
Rupesh: cool , i have tried that for a while but I was not able to calm my mind
i still have the tired feeling , to go back to bed kind of thing
Guru: esp. the meditation and mantra-japa....
Rupesh: good , i have not tried that
that is sitting meditation?
Guru: Yep.
Rupesh: do u do breathing with it?
Guru: Yes.
Rupesh: visualization?
I think proper breathing and visualization are key for the posture to work
Guru: Yes you're supposed to concentrate on the mantra and the deity you're praying to...
Essentially I found out the reason why it's so difficult to stay in one position....
Rupesh: u know that the oriental martial arts emphasize chi(qi) and flow of it in there art forms
Guru: It's mostly about balancing the weight of your head around 3 kgs....
Rupesh: thats part of my exercise to , balance
Guru: A small change in head posture leads to imbalance....
Rupesh: i feel that in my kicks every day , allignment
Guru: I found that I can easily stay in the seated meditation posture if I'm conscious of my head movement.
Normally I could easily meditate for 30-45 minutes at a stretch without feeling discomfort/pain....
The body actually would start feeling a bit weightless due to lack of posture problem....
Though found a bit of stiffness on getting out of the meditation esp with the cold weather....
Rupesh: thats something i feel in the standing meditation too
Guru: Might help to wear some light clothing in that....
Rupesh: yeah
Guru: You should definitely talk to Bhallu... he's further out in the meditation experience...
Rupesh: cool
Guru: He's following Brhamari pranayam, and Bhastrik which makes the mind really calm and you don't get distracted by thoughts unless you want to...
I tried out these techniques and found that they work!!!
Only thing is normally when I start doing things welll suddenly I feel like giving it up....
Rupesh: never heard of em
Guru: :-) :-(
These are reallllly simple techniques in yoga.... 1st one is making a bees sound while breathing out and the 2nd one is bellows breathing rapid....
The good thing is after a take break ... 1 month or so... I normally get back on track without a problem.....
so hopefully I'll start doing the meditation again very soon.
Rupesh: sounds intresting
Guru: It works and is reaaallly simple...
Funny thing is in the past these techniques were taught only to select few....
Try to find the book "The science of breathing" by swami rama....
search for himalayan institute....
Rupesh: i think i have that one
Guru: It's a newer publication by swami rama....
http://www.himalayaninstitute.org/
Rupesh: i have the one called science of breath
by ramacharaka
Guru: That one is different book....
This book is really VERY good...
http://www.himalayaninstitute.org/Shopping/s-37-books.aspx
Meditation and Its Practice, Living with The Himalayan Masters,
(books that we bought)
Path of Fire and Light, Volume 1,
Path of Fire and Light, Volume 2,
Science of Breath,
Stretching Without Pain (just found it on the website)
Actually I've gotta find and buy these books here in Bangalore...
Bhallu bought these in Hyderabad...
Man those are the best books on Yoga and Meditation that I've seen...
He introduces the subject very logically without mumbo-jumbo...
and clearly tells you WHY you're doing something....
he doesn't just say "Do this and it'll help" he'll tell what happens when you do it, How to do it and why you should do it.
Rupesh: u mean swami rama?
Guru: Yep.
He was the Shankaracharya of one of the 4 maths founded by the original shankaracharya....
He doesn't talk like a Mathadipati at alll.... more like a logical person like you and me but with more insight and experience...
Rupesh: anyways , i was going to write to an email about some new discovries about chi or qi I started to stuy
Guru: Great!!
Rupesh: i was wondering how it was different from prana in pranayama in our yoga
transformed into chi/ki/qi in oriental martial arts
Guru: It's the same AFAIK.
Rupesh: I have bought some books about qi gong and start reading about it and practice some the techniques to feel it
AFAIK?
Guru: As Far As I Know.
Try to get this book "The Science of Breath" by Shri Rama. Himalayan Institute Press.
An excellent book as it explains the scientific basis for many of the concepts in pranayama.
Not very common in yoga books.
Rupesh: cool, i will look for that, but i did notice that prana transformed its name in martial arts but also the purpose
like in tai chi , i have there 4 different styles
2 are for healing and 2 are used for martial arts to defend themselves
Rupesh: oh, k , well i was trying to find the transformation between the prana in yoga and using chi in martial arts
Guru: How are the healing chi different from the defence chi?
Rupesh: and I was planning to practice chi breathing first
and incorporate that into my forms in TKD
Guru: Do they teach you that in the class?
Rupesh: so far I have found that the healing and martial chi are one and the same but chi in general has lot to do with your imagination ,
especially during the practice of making your chi strong , you imagine ,
Guru: We'd brought a book on Chi Gong and Sex :D
Rupesh: like you are as strong as be able to lift the earth or as tall as the skies or as delicate to float on the water
no kidding , that would be a side effect of chi of course
Guru: Tantra related Chi practises...
But the things you said are similar.... imagination....
Essentially Kundalini is raised during these practises....
Rupesh: well, they do not teach much about chi at my school , unfortunately , may be in the upper belt levels
Guru: Ok.
Kundalini is the lowest chakra and related to sex.
Rupesh: I suppose , but I am sure I will find the Answer
Guru: The person who started teaching Yoga at Shao-lin would also have taught the Tantra practises to his disciples...
Rupesh: where and when and how yoga and martial arts understand the concept and use it
Guru: That's how Chinese kung-fu got hold of all the Chi meditations...
I think his name was Da-Mo in chinese and dharma something in India....
Rupesh: that makes sense, it does look like the concepts passed on from yoga to martial arts than the other way
Guru: Yep.
The chinese picked up a LOT of stuff from India...
They named it differently in their own fashion later....
Rupesh: I have read some where about bodhi dharma , one of the budhist monks taking from india to china or shaolin
Guru: Get the book I told you about.... it'll make a lot of things clear.
Most yoga books try to hide the Real meaning behind the bandhas and kriyas....
Rupesh: but i believe chinese did enhance it and practice and made the concepts stronger
Guru: They all give the warning that doing these practises incorrectly can lead to physical and mental damage....
Usually saying something like "The forces unleashed by these practises may be beyond the capacity of the unguided student to control...."
Rupesh: a stong pill with a warning
but without practicing how would any reach to that point
Guru: That's what I also feel...
and if you think about it a bit....
who taught the first guy to discover this stuff....
he would have learnt this on his own...
Rupesh: comparitvely , wonder why oriental people are known to hte world more active in there daily life than indians
every time we see on tv , oriental guys are practicing tai chi every where , even in the busy cities like hong kong or singapore or bijieng
Guru: It's the weather I tell you....
They've got cold weather....
Helps you do Tai Chi....
Even our own yogis went to Himalayas to do tapasya...
Just kidding...
:D
Rupesh: anyways , like someone said "practice is the mother of all the skills" we have lot say , that is indians aobut our culture and wealth but no practice
Guru: I think that Pranayama is also done by equal no. of people....
The only thing is the chinese arts are suited to practise by people not interested in mind control....
The benefits are also more tangible.... than in pranayama...
Most people think OH!! I just sit in a corner and breathe....
Rupesh: i guess, but yoga is very popular here, probably a yoga master can get laid more than geek
Guru: the first thing you think of in Tai-Chi is the slow motion hand waving... as if the person is inside the sea waves...
:D
Good place to practise Tantra chi huh?!! ;-D
Rupesh: goof
anyways , its just pity sometimes to hear people talk about yoga and see through them that have no concept what so ever
they wouldnt even understand what name of the posture means
Guru: Yoga guys are very round-about when talking of the concept.... don't give it to you direct....
I think an american yoga expert would be much more direct and to the point.
Rupesh: but we do have people out here who go all the way to china or some orient country and learn martial arts out there and teach it here
who really study it
which i think is pretty cool,
Guru: Yes. They're more action-oriented....
Both the Europeans and the chinese/Japanese....
more yang.
Seems like we're more Yin in that sense.
Rupesh: but i was reading about the food types which fall under yin and yang
all the indian food looked like yang
Guru: Chi Gong/Pranayama allow in many stages to control different aspects of our body and mind....
Rupesh: which I thought was interesting
Guru: Uh,huh....
Rupesh: what>
Guru: According to acupressure 5 tastes are sour, hot, sweet, salt, bitter
They in turn are related to the 5 energies Wind, Heat, Humidity, Dryness, Cold
in turn related to Intelligence/Anger, Laughter/Passion, Greed/Calculation, Sadness/Discipline, Fear/Wisdom
The first 2 energies are Yang energies....
Last 2 energies are Yin energies and the middle one is more balanced...
Sent at 8:07 PM on Friday
Rupesh: ok
Guru: So the Yang foods would be sour, hot.
Yin foods would be salty, bitter.
Rupesh: but what about the food, all the spices we are yang food rather than fruits and veggies which are yin
Guru: With Sweet foods being humidity ie balanced...
Rupesh: so how would indian people form balance other than eating yogurt at the end of the meal
Guru: It's not that straight forward.
we eat curd which is sweet or sour....
Exactly!!
The reason is Spicy food lasts long in our hot conditions....
Rupesh: and oriental people on the other hand do eat lot of sea food which is yin but add spices as yang
Guru: if you don't have a fridge then this type of food lasts long...
example is pickle....
Spicy and salty....
lasts verrrrry long...
Our food is not that salty as its impossible to have that high salt in normal food...
If you look at the "tadka" put into daal it has mixture of all the tastes.... including bitter(methi seeds, mustard seeds etc)...
This has its origin in Ayurveda which prescribes Kheer as the best food for yogis...
Light and easily digestible...
Ok maan!! It was nice talking to you... but gotta leave for home now...
I'll include this chat in my next blog posting!!! :D
Rupesh: ok, drive carefully, will yap some other time
Guru: Bye
........
Quite a few months NO actually a year passed before we had our next conversation :
bhallu, dipti and myself had attended a 'shibir'/workshop on Suryanamaskar, Pranayam and Meditation conducted by our communities Swamiji.....
Everyday for the last 1-2 months we used to practise that in the mornings....
Rupesh: cool , i have tried that for a while but I was not able to calm my mind
i still have the tired feeling , to go back to bed kind of thing
Guru: esp. the meditation and mantra-japa....
Rupesh: good , i have not tried that
that is sitting meditation?
Guru: Yep.
Rupesh: do u do breathing with it?
Guru: Yes.
Rupesh: visualization?
I think proper breathing and visualization are key for the posture to work
Guru: Yes you're supposed to concentrate on the mantra and the deity you're praying to...
Essentially I found out the reason why it's so difficult to stay in one position....
Rupesh: u know that the oriental martial arts emphasize chi(qi) and flow of it in there art forms
Guru: It's mostly about balancing the weight of your head around 3 kgs....
Rupesh: thats part of my exercise to , balance
Guru: A small change in head posture leads to imbalance....
Rupesh: i feel that in my kicks every day , allignment
Guru: I found that I can easily stay in the seated meditation posture if I'm conscious of my head movement.
Normally I could easily meditate for 30-45 minutes at a stretch without feeling discomfort/pain....
The body actually would start feeling a bit weightless due to lack of posture problem....
Though found a bit of stiffness on getting out of the meditation esp with the cold weather....
Rupesh: thats something i feel in the standing meditation too
Guru: Might help to wear some light clothing in that....
Rupesh: yeah
Guru: You should definitely talk to Bhallu... he's further out in the meditation experience...
Rupesh: cool
Guru: He's following Brhamari pranayam, and Bhastrik which makes the mind really calm and you don't get distracted by thoughts unless you want to...
I tried out these techniques and found that they work!!!
Only thing is normally when I start doing things welll suddenly I feel like giving it up....
Rupesh: never heard of em
Guru: :-) :-(
These are reallllly simple techniques in yoga.... 1st one is making a bees sound while breathing out and the 2nd one is bellows breathing rapid....
The good thing is after a take break ... 1 month or so... I normally get back on track without a problem.....
so hopefully I'll start doing the meditation again very soon.
Rupesh: sounds intresting
Guru: It works and is reaaallly simple...
Funny thing is in the past these techniques were taught only to select few....
Try to find the book "The science of breathing" by swami rama....
search for himalayan institute....
Rupesh: i think i have that one
Guru: It's a newer publication by swami rama....
http://www.himalayaninstitute.org/
Rupesh: i have the one called science of breath
by ramacharaka
Guru: That one is different book....
This book is really VERY good...
http://www.himalayaninstitute.org/Shopping/s-37-books.aspx
Meditation and Its Practice, Living with The Himalayan Masters,
(books that we bought)
Path of Fire and Light, Volume 1,
Path of Fire and Light, Volume 2,
Science of Breath,
Stretching Without Pain (just found it on the website)
Actually I've gotta find and buy these books here in Bangalore...
Bhallu bought these in Hyderabad...
Man those are the best books on Yoga and Meditation that I've seen...
He introduces the subject very logically without mumbo-jumbo...
and clearly tells you WHY you're doing something....
he doesn't just say "Do this and it'll help" he'll tell what happens when you do it, How to do it and why you should do it.
Rupesh: u mean swami rama?
Guru: Yep.
He was the Shankaracharya of one of the 4 maths founded by the original shankaracharya....
He doesn't talk like a Mathadipati at alll.... more like a logical person like you and me but with more insight and experience...
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